An exchange
Below, for your enjoyment is an exchange on a discussion board for dancers. Some of the handles have been changed. I'm MM or O M. The issue is ABC licenses and live music and dancing. I've publically disagreed with the DC Nightlife folks because of their disregard for residents' input on being able to challenge ABC licenses. But the thing here is an arguement is presented to appeal to the group's activist side, but I argue that suburbanites freedom to dance infringes on DC resident's right to safety and decent neighborhoods.Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:28 pm Post subject: NIGHTLIFE ALERT - Defend Music and Dancing
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Please join thousands of others in sending a message in support of common-sense reform to restore fairness and balance to nightlife laws and end the unpopular and unprecedented prohibitions against music, dancing, DJs, entertainment, and operating hours imposed by anti-nightlife citizen groups as small as three people.
The D.C. Council will begin voting this week on new nightlife laws and proposed legislative reforms. Don't let them turn out the lights on nightlife!
You do *NOT* need to be a D.C. resident to participate!
RIGHT NOW your support is needed!
"SIGN and SEND" an electronic auto-message to city officials by clicking on this
link:
http://www.CommitteeforaLivingDC.org/NightlifeAlert
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DEFEND NIGHTLIFE IN THE NATION'S CAPITAL!
________________________________________
YOUR SUPPORT IS NEEDED RIGHT NOW!
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*** You do NOT need to be a D.C. resident ***
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WE HAVE MADE IT EASY TO PARTICIPATE!
< SIGN and SEND a NEW auto-message >
. . . . . at the following direct link . . . . .
http://www.CommitteeforaLivingDC.org/NightlifeAlert
IT'S TIME TO RESTORE SOME BALANCE
TO D.C. NIGHTLIFE LAWS!
Support Common Sense, Fairness,
and Regulatory Reform for DC Nightlife!
Community advocacy for regulatory reform
is supported by a large and growing city-wide
coalition of neighborhood residents, community
reform advocates, popular local nightlife venues,
event producers, DJs, and industry professionals,
proponents of local economic development, and,
like yourself -- D.C. nightlife consumers.
"SIGN and SEND" an auto-message NOW!
* You do NOT need to be a DC resident *
< SIGN and SEND >
an auto-message at the following direct link:
http://www.CommitteeforaLivingDC.org/NightlifeAlert
THANK YOU for your continued support!
-- Committee for a Living DC (CLDC)
http://www.CommitteeforaLivingDC.org
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*Bal hugs*
Lily DINNER SHOW! Bakadu! Strongbad!
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Vermont
Location: Living in TKPK MD, when not living at CUA Law.
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:47 pm Post subject:
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Done!
After several weeks on nuisance and zoning laws in property class, I'm pretty skeptical about overly restrictive zoning ordinances.
Susan
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O M
Location: Gentrified Shaw, DC
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 7:00 am Post subject:
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The other side of the coin....
The laws that the "DC Nightlife" people are attacking are the ABC liquor licensing laws that also regulate liquor stores, not just restaurants. What it really is all about are the volunteer agreements that businesses engage in with the residents of the community where they operate. The volunteer agreement is the only effective tool some communities have in dealing with the numerous liquor stores. If a business fails to agree to the volunteer agreement the community challenges their ABC license. DC is not the only place that has volunteer agreements, but our rights to have them are being attacked under the guise of protecting nightlife.
Residents, like myself, worry about trash, public urination, traffic, rats, noise, oh and the odd shooting. The volunteer agreements are our (residents') one shot at addressing those issues, when we ask the business to discourage loitering, keep the thumping music down after 11, make sure that trash doesn't build up, etc. You want to take that away, thanks. Coffee houses, places that don't sell liquor don't have to deal with volunteer agreements and could host live music. The law is not about live music, it's about liqour. Booze, pure and simple.
Go ahead, not like I have a vote in Congress anyway. Seems that those in Maryland and Virginia have a greater say over DC than the people who live here.
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MM
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Lily
Location: home: Alexandria, VA (Obie Grad '03) ;-) Virginia Beach, VA for law school
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 8:27 am Post subject:
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thank you for your clarification of the issues
i wish the vote could be specified more towards the relevant concern for DC nightlife, but unfortunately it doesn't seem possible
most clubs, especially EDM (electronic dance music) venues, are not located next to residences; coffee houses, on the other hand, are, so it would far more likely to have noise and trash concerns for coffee houses than EDM clubs that are usually next to office buildings or are in their own remote, self-contaned warehouse space, like Nation in DC
at most, i doubt the trash and noise of other dance/club/coffee house/cabaret venues will get out of hand, if the vote favors EDM communities, there are other checks in place for that, but the EDM scene lobbyists are few and far between with little influence in the gov't
ps. Susan, thanks for your support!
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*Bal hugs*
Lily DINNER SHOW! Bakadu! Strongbad!
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Bigg_Al
Location: College Park, MD
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 9:24 am Post subject:
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The thing is, it just gives neighborhood advisors much too much power. I mean, a classy guy like Breeze can't keep the Deno's club going because of NIMBYs (who even try to regulate how loud car doors can close) while real estate impresarios can open a behemoth like Dream with relative impunity.
It's not just a double-standard, but a multiple standard. Banish the voluntary agreements and set (shock!) one standard throughout the city.
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Help get The Annoying Music Show on the air!
http://www.petitiononline.com/LUVJIM/petition.html
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Lisa
Location: Ashburn, Virginia
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 9:38 am Post subject:
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Lily or M:
Could you post the proposed leg. or a link to it? I'm still not getting a clear picture of what all is involved and I'm curious...
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Lily
Location: home: Alexandria, VA (Obie Grad '03) ;-) Virginia Beach, VA for law school
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 10:06 am Post subject:
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http://www.committeeforalivingdc.org/NightlifeAlert/
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Lily DINNER SHOW! Bakadu! Strongbad!
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Lisa
Location: Ashburn, Virginia
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 10:10 am Post subject:
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Lily - I didn't see the proposed legislation there. Did I miss it?
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O M
Location: Gentrified Shaw, DC
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 10:17 am Post subject:
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The DC Nightlife folks are challenging 15-516 (see http://www.dccouncil.washington.dc.us/images/00001/20031022175820.pdf )
The introductory letter says its to deal with fake IDs and drinking by minors. Just a quick look shows that the School Board can get into the act of challenging a liquor license.
Another DC Nightlife complaint is that as few as 3 people can challenge a liquor license. Sounds horrid huh? Well here's my story. On the corner of 4th and Florida is a liquor store. Back when I 1st moved in this store would have all sorts of unsavory characters hanging outside the store, a good number of rough fellows. People living much closer to the store got together to challenge the store's ABC license because they were almost encouraging the loitering and creating a safe environment for the drug dealers in their parking lot. The neighbors TRIED (I can't stress that part hard enough) working with the store owner, but were ignored. So when the date comes to challenge the license, we get 2 days warning and the hearing is at 1pm on North Cap. In the middle of the day, I had to take off work early (leaving Alexandria) to attend the hearing and the ABC bastards cancelled on us earlier that morning. You know how hard it is to get people to take off work to attend a hearing? It's good if you can find three people. Worse yet the block where the liquor store is had a bunch of abandoned houses so the number of people around are few. Good news, a new owner bought the store, is working with the neighbors and I feel safer walking over to the corner of 4th and Florida so I can catch a bus.
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MM
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O M
Location: Gentrified Shaw, DC
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:16 pm
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Well, after the DC Council told the Mayor to go screw himself if he wanted take over the schools they delt with the liquor law 15-516 (See http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28910-2004Apr20.html ). I'm happy, & some restaurants are happy. I don't know how exactly the law would hurt EDM communities, but I hope you can keep dancing Lily.
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MM
posted by Mari @ 22.4.04
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